tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2489168146200487747.post6751741901797202766..comments2024-01-30T13:57:40.271+11:00Comments on LoveCats DownUnder: Criticism: Friend or Foe?Ally Blakehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17352564320902831489noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2489168146200487747.post-79217741449040070412013-12-12T19:23:46.241+11:002013-12-12T19:23:46.241+11:00Oh, Annie, I've had that too -- an element in ...Oh, Annie, I've had that too -- an element in a story that one person has loved and another hasn't. It just goes to prove the maxim of different strokes, doesn't it?<br /><br />As far as an epilogue goes for linked books, I'm leaning towards your way of thinking. It does seem to be something readers enjoy. Thanks for weighing in on the issue!Michelle Douglashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07748538761711892080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2489168146200487747.post-85519427434311531272013-12-12T14:12:52.811+11:002013-12-12T14:12:52.811+11:00Michelle, this is fascinating. It's interestin...Michelle, this is fascinating. It's interesting how much we absorb from reviews. For me the main lesson I've learned (echoing Rachel) is that you can't please everyone but you have to work on something you'll be proud and pleased to put your name on. Obviously writing something you think will appeal to others is what it's all about but I've had so many cases where the one specific thing someone didn't like in a particular story was the one thing someone else singled out as fantastic.<br /><br />Having said that though, yes, getting an overview of reader's thoughts is a big help. Some books I suspect may have been rushed at the end, others not. It does seem to be something people comment on. If you're writing linked books I'd like to find out how both couples are doing. An epilogue would achieve that, or a scene where the other couple appear in a way that helps the current story along. I've done that a couple of times and it seems to have worked well (and satisfied the readers who commented).Annie Westhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16804740491737358014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2489168146200487747.post-49833905863472599532013-12-12T13:07:22.600+11:002013-12-12T13:07:22.600+11:00Oh, what a wonderful blog post and a fabulous pers...Oh, what a wonderful blog post and a fabulous perspective to have, Rach! Many thanks for posting the link. :-)<br /><br />I'm glad you've liked the endings of my books thus far. And I'm certainly not going to let a bit of criticism stop me from writing…but I figure it can't hurt to give said criticisms a little thought to see if there's some validity there. The fact of the matter, as Will Wheaton points out, is that we can't please everyone regardless of what we do. Hmm…maybe I'm just looking for a way to please myself more. ;-)Michelle Douglashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07748538761711892080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2489168146200487747.post-82381542122461248632013-12-12T12:38:19.795+11:002013-12-12T12:38:19.795+11:00Michelle, I have to admit that, as a reader, I hat...Michelle, I have to admit that, as a reader, I hate a quick ending. I feel shortchanged after sticking with a couple through a whole book. But having said that, the endings in the books of yours I've read were just perfect. :)<br /><br />I read a really good blog post by Will Wheaton (and when you say his name in your head, you have to say it in the Sheldon-waving-fist-at-the-sky way) that I thought was interesting. The post was titled: Not everyone is going to like the thing you made, and that's okay. He'd had some positive and negative feedback over the same thing: <br /><br />"When I was younger, I would have completely ignored the first one, and obsessively focused on the second one to the point of feeling shitty about myself. Part of having Imposter Syndrome is believing that people who praise you are dupes, while the people who criticize you can actually see through everything. But the thing is, the guy who isn’t thrilled has every right to feel that way, and I don’t take it personally. Not everyone digs what I do and what I bring to a project, and that’s totally cool. At the same time, it’s also pretty awesome that a lot of people do dig what I bring to a project, and that is also cool.<br /><br />"Consider this, about having perspective on criticism: If you enjoyed making a thing, and you’re proud of the thing you made, that’s enough. Not everyone is going to like it, and that’s okay. And sometimes, a person who likes your work and a person who don’t will show up within milliseconds of each other to let you know how they feel. One does not need to cancel out the other, positively or negatively; if you’re proud of the work, and you enjoyed the work, that is what’s important. Don’t let the fear of not pleasing someone stop you from being creative. <br /><br />"The goal isn't to make something everyone will love; the goal is to get excited, and make a thing where something wasn't before."<br /><br />See the whole post here: https://wilwheaton.net/2013/12/not-everyone-is-going-to-like-the-thing-you-made-and-thats-okay/ Rachel Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08200504088343160284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2489168146200487747.post-39722507767964910592013-12-12T09:00:47.651+11:002013-12-12T09:00:47.651+11:00Do we have the space to draw out a longer ending? ...Do we have the space to draw out a longer ending? Jen, as soon as I find the answer to that I'll let you know! ;-) I think we could all do a lot worse than follow Bron's excellent advice. I'm thinking I just have to find the best balance between rushed and drawn out for too long. I'm telling myself that practise makes perfect. :-)Michelle Douglashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07748538761711892080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2489168146200487747.post-40911484052376676452013-12-12T08:56:38.836+11:002013-12-12T08:56:38.836+11:00Hi Tash,
Ah, another lover of the epilogue. I'...Hi Tash,<br /><br />Ah, another lover of the epilogue. I'm going to have to explore this further. :-)<br /><br />I hear you on some of those Amazon and Goodread reviews. I try to steer clear of them as I simply don't find them helpful. And, like you, I wonder why the reviewer even bothered picking up the book in the first place.<br /><br />I think focussing on the positive is a good thing to do in a review, but I also think it's valid to say when something isn't working for you -- like a rushed ending LOL. Drama and chaos is all well and good, but in amongst it I need to see the hero and heroine falling in love too or the ending won't ring true.<br /><br />Thanks for sharing your ramblings! :-)Michelle Douglashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07748538761711892080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2489168146200487747.post-76127498969185660202013-12-11T21:22:26.953+11:002013-12-11T21:22:26.953+11:00This is a very interesting topic, Michelle. I too ...This is a very interesting topic, Michelle. I too have been told I'm rushing my endings in reviews. But, as we write category, do we have the space to draw out a longer ending?<br /><br />I work really hard on the ending now based on that review feedback. But I worry now that I'm putting too much in the ending. However, I do try to focus on what Bron said...on an issue of character growth and show how far the character has come - if that makes sense.Jennifer St Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15115014191040562984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2489168146200487747.post-59879764277207981852013-12-11T20:51:21.855+11:002013-12-11T20:51:21.855+11:00Hi Michelle :) I'm a huge fan of epilogues, i...Hi Michelle :) I'm a huge fan of epilogues, i love how they just kind of keep the book going. I read reviews when I'm undecided about buying a book from an author I may be unfamiliar with or I read them after when I have read a book that I know I'll love - to see if others think the same way. Ive seem a truckload of reviews on Amazon or Goodreads that are unconstructive right thru to the ones where you read thinking Really? Clearly you cant stand this genre so why even bother reading a book you know you're not going to like? So some reviews astound me lol. As someone who (tries) writes reviews I get more worried I havent conveyed how much I may LOVE a book when I get the OMG that was the best book ever feeling. I usually focus on the positive in my reviews and share the bits I loved because it's a genre I genuinely enjoy. Not sure if my ramblings even help with your question lol. To me a rushed ending is if there is 9 of 10 chapters of drama and chaos and then in the 10th all of a sudden everything is peachy. It's nice to start towards the wrap up at least a couple of chapters before the end :) TashNzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02146884245899602417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2489168146200487747.post-38471614224084613232013-12-11T20:38:30.841+11:002013-12-11T20:38:30.841+11:00Thanks, Helen! I'm definitely going to keep ep...Thanks, Helen! I'm definitely going to keep epilogues in mind in the future. :-)Michelle Douglashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07748538761711892080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2489168146200487747.post-35599035742736531622013-12-11T19:44:06.531+11:002013-12-11T19:44:06.531+11:00Michelle
I wouldn't say they were rushed but ...Michelle<br /><br />I wouldn't say they were rushed but I would have liked an epilogue on some of them especially when the heroine is pregnant I do like to know what they had :)<br /><br />Thanks<br /><br />Have Fun<br />HelenHelenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03984438742736003285noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2489168146200487747.post-75814434955020307012013-12-11T18:34:19.510+11:002013-12-11T18:34:19.510+11:00Hi Amy,
There's been a lot of chat on the int...Hi Amy,<br /><br />There's been a lot of chat on the interweb about reviews recently, Amy, with buzzfeed (I think it was them) coming out and saying they wouldn't post any negative reviews. I was a bit saddened by that. I'm all about getting rid of vindictive review/rants, but I still want an honest review. You nailed it with "insight" and "thought-provoking" -- reviews like that are gold.<br /><br />Okay, and I'm glad I'm not the only person who finds endings tricky. :-) I think part of my problem is that as a reader when I'm reading a romance, I love the declaration of love, the last kiss and the fun, silly, and/or cute bit of banter, but then I want the heck out of there. So that's what I tend to write. But I do want to find a happy balance.<br /><br />Michelle Douglashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07748538761711892080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2489168146200487747.post-67892290089537702652013-12-11T18:02:47.158+11:002013-12-11T18:02:47.158+11:00Hi Michelle,
Reviews are a tricky subject aren'...Hi Michelle,<br />Reviews are a tricky subject aren't they? I actually really like 3 star reviews. I know I shouldn't say that. I know I should say I love the 4 and 5 star reviews and of course I do!! :-) but I think 3 star reviews tend to be very thoughtful and I think, as a reader, are more helpful. As long as the reviewer can give me some insight into her thinking, then I'm generally happy. Hell I've had a couple of 2 star reviews for a book that I've simply loved because they were so well written and thought provoking. <br />I think endings are very hard not to rush in books of 50k and it seems to be a common complaint. And I, too, am "guilty" of it. I think we can all strive to do better for our readers but ultimately, as a writer, the ending is what the ending is so I think its a bit of a tricky balance! Amy Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12690419732247281048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2489168146200487747.post-83439731750988349502013-12-11T15:30:32.906+11:002013-12-11T15:30:32.906+11:00Sharon, I could've hugged the reviewer (once I...Sharon, I could've hugged the reviewer (once I got over the wincing)…and I pondered how I could fix the issues with that book for a long time before I got it all straight in my mind. It was a very valuable exercise. You're so right about thoughtful reviews being helpful. :-)<br /><br />Aw, thanks for chiming in and saying you like my endings as they are. It can be so hard with our shorter books to give every element its rightful weight. Mind you, if I had every aspect of this writing gig nailed -- if it didn't throw up surprises -- I'd probably get bored with it. (Mind you, today I'd be tempted to settle for bored ;-) )Michelle Douglashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07748538761711892080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2489168146200487747.post-78228095724889876662013-12-11T15:11:18.809+11:002013-12-11T15:11:18.809+11:00Michelle, how interesting that the reviewer's ...Michelle, how interesting that the reviewer's comments about your 5th book pinpointed your own uncertainties about the story! That's hugely perceptive, isn't it! A thoughtful review can be very helpful.<br /><br />Good luck with your "endings"! Some stories definitely lend themselves to an nice epilogue to wrap things up and give us a peek into the characters' "happily ever after". Though I do have to say that with all of your books that I've read, I've thoroughly enjoyed your endings just the way they are! Sharon Archerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06836969154744451542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2489168146200487747.post-38712830609439219002013-12-11T15:00:00.058+11:002013-12-11T15:00:00.058+11:00I'm all for learning, Sue. :-) I have to say t...I'm all for learning, Sue. :-) I have to say that when I've been working on a book for a long time I do start to lose objectivity and perspective on it (which is why I love giving my mss a chance to sit dormant for a while). All of that said, though, I'm not perfect in any other aspect of my life (and I secretly suspect that perfection sets my teeth on edge), but as long as I continue to strive to improve then that's the best anyone can do. :-)Michelle Douglashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07748538761711892080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2489168146200487747.post-35551798827856041982013-12-11T14:24:21.608+11:002013-12-11T14:24:21.608+11:00Yes, Michelle, I have learned from reviews. Like y...Yes, Michelle, I have learned from reviews. Like you mentioned, they often resonate with my own misgivings - misgivings that aren't very clear to me until I read these reviews. It's also interesting when a reviewer sees a character quite differently to what I thought I was writing. That happened once but fortunately was only a secondary character.Sue MacKaynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2489168146200487747.post-31328074385762406112013-12-11T11:53:26.887+11:002013-12-11T11:53:26.887+11:00You know, Bron -- I think fun is as good a reason ...You know, Bron -- I think fun is as good a reason as any. :-) And I love your thoughts on epilogues. That whole rosy-glow baby thing doesn't do anything much for more. I like some substance there too, like you.<br /><br />Hmm, those pesky endings. I do think I get writing fatigue during the writing of a book, and as I write the ending last it's probably the bit that gets the shortest shrift. Now that I'm aware of it, though, hopefully I'll be able to put the extra effort in that's needed. I'm starting to think there's a definite art.Michelle Douglashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07748538761711892080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2489168146200487747.post-29113556300649720302013-12-11T11:23:37.908+11:002013-12-11T11:23:37.908+11:00I'd go with that feeling, Michelle, especially...I'd go with that feeling, Michelle, especially as you're thinking that it will be fun. I do like a well thought out epilogue which reflects the characters truly rather than being a generic babies/love thang. Maybe one that addresses an issue, showing character growth, or a circular one from the prologue or a key scene in the story. <br /><br />I've had similar reviews, BTW, on endings that seem too rushed. It's a skill, penning the perfect ending, and one I need to work on. I'm afraid that by the time I work through the black moment and the characters' decision to change, I'm ready to wrap it all up quickly. I far prefer writing the conflict scenes, I realise, and when that's all over I just want to get it finished. Yes. I do need to work on my endings.Bronwyn Jamesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00720477786460767921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2489168146200487747.post-26046953121304068462013-12-11T09:04:41.470+11:002013-12-11T09:04:41.470+11:00Helen, you write gorgeous reviews! :-) I'm so ...Helen, you write gorgeous reviews! :-) I'm so glad you've enjoyed my stories -- chuffed beyond measure! I have to ask now, of course, if you find any of my endings rushed. <br /><br />Ah, so you'd vote for an epilogue, huh? I'm at the upper word limit with the book 2 in my duet, but maybe I could sneak another couple of hundred words in. I have a feeling an epilogue could be fun ;-)Michelle Douglashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07748538761711892080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2489168146200487747.post-86678693264277186212013-12-11T09:00:02.602+11:002013-12-11T09:00:02.602+11:00Hi sisimka,
So glad you found the post encouragin...Hi sisimka,<br /><br />So glad you found the post encouraging. :-) And, yes, I never think it wise to agree with all the negative comments in a review, but if something feels as if it has a germ of truth in it (even when it stings a little), I try to make the time to ponder it for a while and see what I might've been able to do differently to counter the criticism. Writing is such a learning curve and sometimes it'll take the writing of another couple of book before that lightbulb moment happens. :-)<br /><br />Ooh, I love quirky heroines. I do find that if a heroine is give a really sympathetic goal and/or shown being nice/kind/protective to puppies, children or an elderly person then one can get away with a myriad of quirks.<br /><br />Best of luck with your writing journey!Michelle Douglashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07748538761711892080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2489168146200487747.post-92229994546285822382013-12-11T05:18:59.908+11:002013-12-11T05:18:59.908+11:00Michelle
I agree that if a review is done tastefu...Michelle<br /><br />I agree that if a review is done tastefully and in a postitive way then it should encourage the writer I must say I am a big fan of an epilogue and always have been and I am not fond of rushed endings either and I must say I love your stories they have such emotion and feeling in them :)<br /><br />Have Fun<br />HelenHelenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03984438742736003285noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2489168146200487747.post-90266960875241328162013-12-11T02:13:01.873+11:002013-12-11T02:13:01.873+11:00I've learned a lot from reading reviews of my ...I've learned a lot from reading reviews of my novella. I don't agree with all the negative comments. Sometimes I feel the reader missed my point and it's not for lack of communication, it's more a difference in what I wanted to convey and what they were looking for. And that’s okay. You can’t write for everyone. I believe in writing for yourself. That being said, I have picked up some insight on to how to make my next story more accessible to some readers in a way that works for me as well. While I love writing quirky heroines, I realise that most people like to read someone they can identify with. So I’m trying to make my next heroine a little more usual. That doesn’t mean I won’t write another different sort of girl, it just means I’m trying something new and I think as writers, we all aim to do that. <br /><br />As for endings—hm. I think there is a point where the story has to end and adding too much afterwards can detract from the actual ending, or the conclusion to the plot. Epilogues that provide a glimpse of the happy ever after are nice. <br /><br />I enjoyed reading your thoughts, by the way. Very interesting and encouraging. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com